Hi RexOr, u have some valid points here, due to the marque font is still on discussion you can see this as an other alternative.

Some thoughts about the design you see here:

-The highlighted "B" indicates the model and stands for "Beta", its actually the same like with the O.
-It's vise versa on the body, because the body is the main product here.
-IMHO the BETA should be an own Logo - It clearly stands for the product. Of Course it should also go along with axiom.
-The AXIOM placement is on this sides, because if the camera is mounted on a rig or when operated by hand, this two side will be visible ( if the person is right-handed)
-Emulating what other major manufacturing company are doing sound a good idea to me, they do ton's of research about brand placement, we should use that to our advantage.

mmm I'm not so sure about that. Consensus is that generally we should distance ourselves from existing manufacturers (particularly the DSLR crowd) as much as possible and at any opportunity.

The AXIOM on the side thing came up a year or so ago. Was actually arguing for the case of AXIOM being on the side and 'Beta' (symbol) being on the front at the time, don't think it was supported. Reasoning was photos of camera rigs... but in fairness, and after spending a lot of time researching user photos, there was no consistency in this regard and many rig pictures are taken from the front or at "10 o'clock". Then when the 'round the corner' approach came up it was well received.

Would probably say too that the uncertainty about the logos is a real headache. Not sure how abreast of the story you are but for a long time I was insistent that we should employ the greek alphabet. Because of a lack of support it wasn't carried forward, (for the record I've tested over 10,000 fonts with the Beta logo), and after the hours/days/weeks pouring over it a classic sans serif or serif keeps coming back as the most appropriate suit. It's a critical aspect of the camera and promo so we need to get it right.

As always with this, and as I've suggested before, I'd be happy to go to the polls and, whichever way it falls, get to the right decision that way.

I would be interested in understanding how the plugin modules work with this design more. Do you have any renders of that?

It looks awesome! i like that you leave the connections on the sides.

I was about to ask if the rear plate is empty, because i'm designing the battery for the camera and mounting it in the rear plate will counterweight the lens when hand held and on a tripod.

I love it!

I was about to ask if the rear plate is empty, because i'm designing the battery for the camera and mounting it in the rear plate will counterweight the lens when hand held and on a tripod.

Yes, the rear plate is empty and reserved for any kind of battery mounts.

Too much chatter about the marque and the font. Why don't you pay more attention to the ergonomics (non-existant here) of the camera body. It looks about as handholdable for mor ethan 5 minutes as a DSLR. And about as stable too.
Let's think about the Aaton LTR and or the Panaflex w/ rear mounted mag or the last Arricam LT or the 235.
Think different guys, don't go down the Red / Canon path, please, or I'll get out of this project now.
Roberto Schaefer, ASC / AIC

What is this rectangular removable element on the top of the case for ? (Right side if looking at the top down render image).

Can you clarify how the plugin modules are to work ? What connections are here ?

Not having any screw mounts on the side with the majority of the sockets seems a bit of a negative. There are bound to be people that due to some left/right handed preference want to mount the majority of their stuff on that side. As the design is basically a box with some cheese plate functionality it seems a shame not to at least try and replicate that at least some-what symmetrically. Is it not possible to share the sockets a little more equally between the two sides so there is a little room for screw mounts on both sides ?

I agree about the ergonomics. But it's probably too late to have this changed. I think a squat, horizontal rectangle was the wrong choice. Better something like this: Black Betty Cameras

In that case I think Sebastian should push for a magnesim alloy camera body, but they only have 3D printers and few people manufacturing their products, so a magnesim alloy body like what other camera companies camera bodies have, would have to wait.

Looking really good... I'd like to see a firmly fixed cold shoe on the upper left side - but recognise the lack of space.

The top threads are great, but mounting viewfinders can be a real pain.

In catalan we say: "fa molt de goig", it's like: I'm feeling very good and very happy to see it.
After see all work in last three years I believe in your desicions. Anyway, if someone belive 'I can do it better', you can, this is open hardware.

Thanks for all the feedback! Its great to see you guys involved!

Here are some answers/pointers:

Let's think about the Aaton LTR and or the Panaflex w/ rear mounted mag or the last Arricam LT or the 235.

I agree that this AXIOM Beta enclosure design does not deal with ergonomics at all. But consider it more a hard protection shell around the electronics than anything else (the PCB stack is box shaped defining the box shape of this enclosure).
Remember the SI2K which was basically a box shaped metal piece with a lens mount as well.

What is this rectangular removable element on the top of the case for ? (Right side if looking at the top down render image).

These are modules that allow us to add additional interfaces (connectors, buttons, knobs or a small LCD/OLED for status display) in the future.
The same plate design is used for the power button/status LED, the idea is to easily allow swapping it out for something better/more sophisticated in the future.

Can you clarify how the plugin modules are to work ? What connections are here ?

Plugin modules are the high speed IO of the Beta with two slots each featuring 6Gbit/s througput.
So far there are debug modules, and the 1080p60 HDMI module, the 6G SDI plugin module is in development, see: https://www.apertus.org/axiom-team-talk-volume-13.1-article-september-2017, USB3 module in development as well TT 13.2 will cover this.

Is it not possible to share the sockets a little more equally between the two sides so there is a little room for screw mounts on both sides ?

We will look into it.

I agree about the ergonomics. But it's probably too late to have this changed. I think a squat, horizontal rectangle was the wrong choice. Better something like this: Black Betty Cameras

See above, now is exactly the right time :)

Looking really good... I'd like to see a firmly fixed cold shoe on the upper left side - but recognise the lack of space.

Due to space constraints and not being able to find any off-the-shelf hotshoe components (https://lab.apertus.org/T794) we had to ditch the hotshoe mount.

+1 on the ergonomics, although I understand a complete overhaul is out of the question at this point.

Good to see mounting points on top for a top handle and/or other accessories, like a viewfinder or monitor. The current position, on the rear of the top plate, is a little odd for a top handle? If you could add a couple mounting points on the front end, that would help a lot. It looks like there's no room now, with vents being there, but maybe there's a solution?

I would really like to see mounting holes on the left hand side as well. For a second handle, viewfinder (in my case Gratical Eye), cable clamp, whatever. With more mounting options, we could work around the body not being the most ergonomic itself. Sometimes it's great to have a tiny camera (body), so you've got that covered.

Thanks for the hard work!

A while back there was talk about designing an adapter that would allow the sensor to be rotated 90° so the camera head could be operated vertically. The optical centre would almost run down the middle of the body and would be better suited to a shoulder rig setup.

I did a quick mockup at the time:

*relative dimensions may not be 100% accurate. The enclosure shape has also changed since.

Maybe this could be explored again?

Love your mock up. Sadly the 90 degree rotation board was only desired by a small number of people (I was one!) so development has been dropped, or maybe pushed to a much lower priority. Hopefully they will revisit the concept.

"Is it not possible to share the sockets a little more equally between the two sides so there is a little room for screw mounts on both sides ?"
I agree on this. It would give it much versatility. It's a pitty about the cold shoe not fitting there.
Overall anyway, it looks great and with many possibilities to build around it.
Thank you guys for the hard work!

We are investigating the 90° Sensor rotation option - from what we know so far it will be a technically rather challenging effort and will likely require more PCB layers than OSHPark can manufacture. Details will follow.

I am investigating adding threaded holes as mountpoints to the left side and if there is any way I can squeeze in a coldshoe mount somewhere. Cold Shoe parts: https://lab.apertus.org/T794

Regarding the cat on the shoulder we are also in the middle of making our concepts ready for sharing and reviewing. There are some general question we want to discuss/explore with you soon eg. like if the shoulder pad should be shift-able to account for different lenses with different weights that affect the center of mass of the camera and so on.

What's the font you've used for the port labeling Michael?

@RexOr

To stay in CD and also because I thought it fit pretty well, I used Titillium

Renders and improvements good.

Emulating Canon DSLR branding not so good.

Thanks!

Emulating Canon DSLR branding not so good.

Please elaborate.

power led on top is a bad spot, cant it be on the side?
most of the time one can not see the led on top,
but on the side it can always be seen.

i would love to see some kind of led matrix with different colors to see whats going
on inside, the camera, like the debug shield bertl once made in the beginning.
think about adjustable brightness of these/all LEDs!

Please elaborate.

https://lab.apertus.org/M34#1028

> Please elaborate.

https://lab.apertus.org/M34#1028

I agree the logo is not finished/discussed yet but that belongs in T741 or T744

Hey guys,

I like that you added some threaded holes. Could you add another one on the lefthand side, on the bottom of the camera? If one was added right underneath the top one, you could mount a NATO rail there and easily mount a couple accessories.

What about the top? Is it impossible to move/add threaded holes to the front edge of the camera, as opposed to the rear end, where they are now?

Thanks!

Did you think it can be possible to add some protections on the ethernet, hdmi connectors ? It can save us a lot !

Could you add another one on the lefthand side, on the bottom of the camera? If one was added right underneath the top one, you could mount a NATO rail there and easily mount a couple accessories.

Cool idea.

What about the top? Is it impossible to move/add threaded holes to the front edge of the camera, as opposed to the rear end, where they are now?

The fan/ventilation holes are in the way for doing that I am afraid.

Did you think it can be possible to add some protections on the ethernet, hdmi connectors ? It can save us a lot !

To be honest I am not a fan of these rubber covers as they are not durable...
I was thinking of covering the entire connector plate on the left hand side of the camera with a more solid plate, but no concepts yet.

I made this and a few other pholios public (apparently the default setting was "visible: all users" but that meant only people with phabricator account can see it - now everyone can).

Regarding the rubber covers I will leave that to future revisions/improvements. I know its a good idea to protect the interfaces but this first enclosure revision cannot do it all or it will never get finished.

I added the the suggested thread holes in the bottom cap so they are in line with the ones in the top plate.

For the rubber cover, we will work on 3d print plate that we can try to clip. Maybe an another solution in flexible plastic, not the more durable solution but very cheap to print !

For the rubber cover, we will work on 3d print plate that we can try to clip. Maybe an another solution in flexible plastic, not the more durable solution but very cheap to print !

Great idea!

Thanks guys. For the camera to work without a cage, I really need at least two 1/4” holes on either side, vertically aligned. So the right hand side has got that covered, the left hand side doesn’t. One extra hole down below would allow a Nato rail to be attached and then we’d be home free.

Except for the top. I’ve said it before, I’d really like to see two 1/4” holes on the camera’s front edge as well. Again, to attach a Nato rail for a top handle or other accessories. I realize there are ventilation holes there, but if you added two 1/4” holes right next to the hex screws, an open Nato rail would hardly cover those ventilation holes.

This has nothing to do with a future handheld rig. Personally, I have a Zacuto VCT Pro Baseplate for that. But sometimes you want to go barebones, lightweight, or simply need the camera to be tiny, so having the option is worth a lot. It doesn’t seem that difficult to achieve what I’m asking. Correct me if I’m wrong, I might be totally off base here. :-)

And maybe add an extra 1/4” hole on the bottom end of the camera, right underneath the 1/4” hole on the right hand side while you’re at it. A rail there could allow my wooden side handle to be attached.

Scrolling back, I noticed you said ‘cool idea’ about the extra bottom hole a while back. It didn’t make it into the current revision though.

Thanks!

Hi Iwan.

Just checking that you're aware of AXIOM Beta Compact Shell yeah? - It was covered in TT13.2. Would that fix things for you?

Snap, totally forgot about the Compact Shell! Which is kind of a cage, I guess. And cages are... You need to buy a cage or extra rails for more mounting points with every new camera you buy these days. It would be great if cameras had all the mounting points themselves. Saves both weight and money.

But the compact shell would totally work. Except for the right hand side, from the looks of it. Adding a side grip there simply works great if you go handheld with a small camera. So if the Compact shell could extend along the right hand side too - which maybe it already does, I can't tell from the picture - that would solve everything.

Thanks!

Scrolling back, I noticed you said ‘cool idea’ about the extra bottom hole a while back. It didn’t make it into the current revision though.

It did, the above rendering is from September 2017.

Here is a CAD view with shell that shows the 1/4" thread holes at the sides top and bottom:

Awesome, that's perfect!

I obviously didn't look at the dates of the first pics. My mistake. And the Arri rosette already covered the attachment of a side handle.

Thanks, guys.